The problem I find with the first claim of this “victory mosque” being used to celebrate the attack on 9/11 is that there is absolutely no evidence that this is the goal of the Cordoba Project or Imam Rauf. The claim is nothing but baseless speculation without one shred of evidence or logic to support it and as such should not be uttered by either protesters or the media. To speculate in such a way is the equivalent to claiming that every Christian church built in the US was a “victory church” erected to celebrate the conquest of various Native American tribes and the terror brought upon those people.
The slightly less ridiculous view is that it is offensive and disrespectful to build a mosque near the site of an attack perpetuated by a group of extremist Muslims. This issue neglects many facts about the attacks of 9/11; that the attackers were a fringe group of believers that could easily be replicated in any other major religion, that the motivation behind the attacks was primarily grievances with US foreign policy and not their religion, and that many Muslims died in the attacks as well. In addition, it also neglects the fact that Ground Zero is currently surrounded by strip clubs, bars, churches, synagogues, and even smaller mosques yet no one is attempting to use this “hallowed ground” argument to dispose of them.
The vast majority of these protesters are Christians, some of whom are screaming to have the government intervene in the building and have it stopped. It seems that these individuals have completely forgotten the most important values of the foundation of our country: the freedom to practice the religion one chooses and the freedom to purchase and use land in the way that one chooses. These freedoms are constitutionally inalienable yet now we have some Christians that believe that they only apply to their faith and are willing to strip others of these rights. The only excuse I can find for this point of view is that there is a vast amount of ignorance, misinformation, and hate being spread toward a people that have not earned any of those things. This false patriotism is promoting liberty for the majority only, which is a far greater insult to the victims and families of 9/11.
Please, as the media and both political parties shamefully continue this demagoguery, remember that freedom was not meant for the majority only - it was intended for all American’s. I may not be a believer of any sort, but I will defend to the death your right to practice your beliefs so long as they bring no harm to anyone else - if you can’t say that same thing then I challenge you to consider who is the real patriot.
Matt Oxley
So called "conservatives" who are screaming against this (that is, people masquerading as conservatives but who are really bigoted fascists in disguise) show once again that when the rubber meets the road, they don't support freedom any more than the scumbags they hate on the Left.
The reasonable thing to do regarding this mosque is simple- absolutely nothing. It's their right to build a mosque on their property, just like it's my right to build a church on mine.
Anything else is tyranny. Great letter.
Another problem is the lies of our elites/political leaders who ignore the hate and intolerance fundamental to the Koran......political correctness will be the death of our freedoms!!!
Finally, both current headlines and the history of Islam is consistently marked with intolerance, hate, and crimes against humanity.
I am well aware, like yourself, of the many violences committed by islamic people.
Unfortunately I am also well aware of the many violences committed by Christian people at the bequest of their Holy Book.
The Koran and The Holy Bible are ALMOST tit for tat in the realm of violence, with the Bible taking a slight edge toward the middle.
So...I can either work with the understanding that because Christianity, Islam, and Judaism promote extremism that all Christians, Muslims, and Jews are violent, crazy, and racist - or I can work with the understanding that all religions can be construed in such a way as to be violent, crazy, and racist...my experience tells me that the latter is true.
Matt Oxley
RagingRev.com
Do you have a clue as to when and why Solomon's temple was built?
It was no less a temple of conquest than the Dome of the Rock - no it wasn't a coincidence at all!
If you are against progress and tolerance then I really don't know what I could say to you...
Matt Oxley
RagingRev.com
http://www.inquiryintoislam.com/2010/07/three-things-about-islam-video.html?spref=fb
(This isn't really important, but I wanted to say that I am just as impressed by what you wrote as how you wrote it. Your grammar is flawless with one exception. The plural of "Americans" shouldn't have an apostrophe. I mean no criticism or offense. I'm sure it was just a typo.) :)
Sam Harris had a great Op Ed in the Washington Post yesterday. He mentions an obvious way that the anger toward the Imam and Mosque could have been quelled.
http://www.doubledutchpolitics.com/2010/08/one-paragraph-that-could-end-the-park-51-uproar/
Why the Greek Orthodox Church is not being permitted is well outside the scope of this letter...I'm not sure, but if the reasons behind it are as illegitimate as the reasons people are protesting this Mosque then I surely stand against it!
Like I said, there is no excuse for limiting religious freedom nor the freedom to use land as one wishes...I intend to look more into this matter as discrimination on either side is intolerable.
I don't know who is funding the Mosque and I don't care - so long as my tax dollars aren't. I do know that one of the individuals providing a portion of the funding owns a portion of Fox News - Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal...take that as you wish.
If the Imam and his wife hate Americans I'd like you to prove that. I know that Imam Rauf aided Homeland Security on many occasions with stopping young terrorists in the past from omitting horrendous acts - I think he loves America just like I do.
Regarding love thy neighbor:
Surah 2 Verse 117
"It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards East or West; but it is righteousness to believe in God and the Last Day and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask; and for the freeing of captives; to be steadfast in prayers, and practice regular charity; to fulfill the contracts which you made; and to be firm and patient in pain (or suffering) and adversity and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-conscious."
Matt Oxley
RagingRev.com
Why yes William, I have read the Qur'an and the Haditha and I am familiar with the tenets of Islam. I am also familiar with the tenets of many other faiths and I am able to conclusively say that Islam can be construed in any way one may desire and that this is largely controlled by the personality that is reading the holy texts of each respective religion. Islam, Christianity, and Judaism have the potential to invoke extremism as illustrated by their very dark pasts - it is generally the reader or the organized religious body that invokes the extremism and refuses to tone down the parts that aren't culturally acceptable. Absolutely every point you just applied to Islam can just as easily be applied to the other two major religions in this world.
Regardless of this, Islam was not the spark that launched the hijackers into action on 9/11 - it was merely the glue that held them all together. They attacked because they had grievances with US foreign policy and this countries unrelenting support of the nation of Israel - this is in line with their statements and with the stated goals of Al-Qaeda, in which Islam itself seems to be an afterthought.
My view is one that embraces the factual and the reasonable as opposed to the emotional and falsely reported.
Matt Oxley
RagingRev.com
Furthermore, the arguments concerning freedom of religion are moot, since Islam is not a religion, it is LAW. If you can't distinguish the difference, then I would remind you that in muslim countries, the DEFACTO laws are whatever the Imam's say it is. THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Therefore, they cannot claim religion as a "loophole" through with they want to crawl.
We are being invaded, people. If, during WWII, the nazi's had wanted to have a parade in NY, claiming right to assemble, would we have allowed that? No, because we were at war. We are, again, AT WAR with ISLAM:
" . . and religion shall be ONLY for Allah"
Egotistical Elitist....that's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me!!
Seriously, if you lack anything constructive to add why waste time posting and insulting me?
If I'm not mistaken, this is the "Opinion" section, so what is it to you whether or not I post something "constructive"? I'm posting my opinion. Also, what is it to you if I take a whole minute to post my opinion? How many hours a day do you spend on this website, just waiting for an opportunity to write bigoted comments? You have a ridiculous elitist attitude that is rather pathetic considering you live in a small town like Eastman. You make claims quite often of how you've read this document or that document, such as the health care bill, Bible, Qur’an (by the way, its "Qur’an" not Koran) and unless you have no life and no job which enables you loads of free time, that's simply a load of crap. You just claim to have read these things so you can spout off your ignorant arguments in a more presentable fashion. I can Google a few facts from these documents and pretend I've read them too!
Since you asked me a question, I'll ask you two. Why bother incessantly posting and arguing your skewed logic in a little newspaper in which the majority of posters disagree with you? Don't you have better things do you with your oh-so-important time?
Who do I put down on a regular basis? When have I done this? What about my letters has been egotistical in the last two years? Can you provide an example of this?
I didn't ignore any posters here, at least not to my knowledge. Some I didn't respond to directly but that was only because they had the same things to say as a poster I had previously replied to...no need for redundancy.
Yes, I do read the documents I claim to. More often than not I do so in full - in regards to the Bible it is a document (or set of documents) that I have read many many times and studied rather thoroughly. I've been through the Qur'an (can be spelled Koran) once, but it was enough for me to recognize the nature of the book and the interpretable nature of the belief system (as evidenced by the sectarian divisions within Islam as a whole).
Believe it or not, reading isn't very difficult if you know how and it doesn't take up too much of your time if you give it a shot. I'm sorry that you feel it must monopolize such a great portion of anyone's time or that if it did that it wouldn't be worth such a sacrifice. For the record, I am gainfully employed and on top of that I run a computer repair business out of my home, I also volunteer with a few different organizations and run a few websites...I still make time to educate myself to the best of my ability.
Also, for the record - I'm not traditionally educated beyond High School, nor have I ever made such a claim. I personally find that post-secondary education is by and large a farce, a waste of money, and in this current era rarely worth the trouble. I plan on writing about that soon, I'll be sure to let you know when I do. I do have a passion for knowledge and I try to learn in all that I do. I make mistakes and I find out that I am wrong sometimes too, this is the process of learning...if you don't respect that process or the existence of books then I really don't know what else to say on the subject and our issue is one that likely will not be resolved.
So, I ask that you object to my arguments...where am I wrong? Correct me! If I've made a mistake show me where and I'll research your position and make corrections as need be.
To answer your questions:
I don't write because I like when people agree with me, I know I'm not going to make many friends in Dodge County by talking poorly about Fox News or by supporting religious freedom in any context outside of Christianity. Of this I am absolutely certain - but my goal isn't to make friends, my goal is to express an opinion that demonstrates critical thinking, tolerance, and reason in a newspaper that is sadly void of it....we are graced every week by Rich Lowry and Marshall Miller whom repeat everything they hear from pundits and the only other person that has ever been willing to disagree or insert reason into the discussion here had himself and his family threatened with death for it...I take issue with that and I want to believe that Dodge County is better than that. So, I do this because it's perfectly OK to have a different view, to express it, and to sometimes convince others to think about things rather than swallow everything they hear.
I want to believe, and I do believe, that it is a MINORITY in Dodge County that espouses ignorance, sadly they are the loudest people in the county....I'm here to prove it by showing that we aren't all sheep and that you should have to be afraid for your life just because you don't like what Glenn Beck has to say about things.
I try to do so respectfully, and though I have failed in doing so in the past I challenge you to show me how I've been rude, arrogant, or any of the other things you accused me of in this letter.
Matt Oxley
RagingRev.com
Why on earth would you blame innocent people of a religion you barely understand and say that they do not have a right to do the same things that you are granted? Should we be held accountable for radical Christians actions? I certainly hope not. I also do not understand how so many people can be misinformed. You also say that Islam teaches hate but the only proof you have is misinterpretations of scriptures and you cling to terrorists as the faces of Islam. Christianity certainly does teach hate; yet here is hate plain as day being spread by Christians. Also everyone should remember that the Koran, Bible, Judea Bible, and most all other forms of major religions were written thousands of years ago yet humanity hasn't become enlightened enough to co-exist. Shame on myself and everyone on all sides and all walks of life for not doing better. READ a history book, or better yet follow the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
When they take over America (and they will because liberals are so blind to their evil and are so busy yelling for equality), I do hope Matt gets to be one of the first 'infidels' they visit.
How ignorant of their true purpose can people be? They are not going to extend the same freedoms to you, when they gain control.
Logic and critical thinking can reveal many things to you, but sometimes you have to go with your 'gut' feelings. Anyone who does not think there is a hidden agenda in the building of the mosque at the 9/11 site ~ is sadly not living in a realistic world.
Consider if you met a rabid dog. You know he is rabid, but at the moment he is quiet and seems passive. You approach to pet him; he attacks you. Would you then allow this same dog to have a home close to your children? How stupid is that? Your argument is ~" well, he seemed okay." THAT is the what the Muslims are doing. They don't even have to make their case; ignorant Americans are doing it for them, while they sit back and laugh at us all. Poor, ignorant,trusting Americans.
I could just as easily brush all of Christendom with the same brush as I do Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church - or better yet, consider all Christians to be Aryan Nationalists like Hitler....but I don't because I know that the holy books of both Christianity and Islam are very much interpreted by the social and personal leanings of an individual interpreter and don't often find agreement among adherents to the respective texts.
I don't paint all Muslims with the same brush because I know that not all Muslims are the same...I know very much the same thing about Christians and I find that it benefits people like yourself that I don't operate on such a level.
The rest of your arguments can either A: Be applied just as easily to Christianity or B: be dropped for their lack of relevance.
Seriously though, I have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think that mosque would turn in to a center for learning, not one of hate. I know they would not breed hate (mostly due to the fact that millions of eyes are already on this place). Yes they have extremists, so do christains, jews, buddhist. Every religion has some form of extreme nut. Everyone has there opinion, and getting but hurt becasue someone you dislike expresses there own is just retarded. I have had the pleasure to work some amazing muslim people, who I consider very close friends for the rest of my life. What you see on tv, read in the media, that doesn't count. Again, having a closed mind and a open mouth, only add to the deeper wounds that have been plauging America so much.